In today's episode Warren Ingram and Ess Mukumbo discuss the challenges of balancing work and parenting. They emphasize the importance of planning, communication, having a support system in place and the guilt that parents often feel and the need to prioritize and make trade-off decisions.
Takeaways
For more valuable insights from the 10x team, click here.
Have a question for Warren? Don't forget to voice note your questions through our WhatsApp chat on (+27)79 807 8162 and you could be featured in one of our episodes. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn and subscribe to our YouTube channel for more Financial Freedom content: @HonestMoneyPod
In today's episode Warren Ingram and Ess Mukumbo discuss the challenges of balancing work and parenting. They emphasize the importance of planning, communication, having a support system in place and the guilt that parents often feel and the need to prioritize and make trade-off decisions.
Takeaways
For more valuable insights from the 10x team, click here.
Have a question for Warren? Don't forget to voice note your questions through our WhatsApp chat on (+27)79 807 8162 and you could be featured in one of our episodes. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn and subscribe to our YouTube channel for more Financial Freedom content: @HonestMoneyPod
The Honest Money podcast is powered by 10X Investments, a licensed financial services provider. Consult with your financial advisor and let's 10X your future together.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Honest Money. I'm really glad we've got one of my all-time favorite guests on the show again. She's so good that she could kind of just run the show on her own. I think she's a personal finance educator and I think has one of the all-time leading threads on X or Twitter whatever you want to call it about kind of starting the journey to financial freedom, and I guess she wants to be called a personal finance educator. I want to call her an all-around good human being S. Welcome to the show again. It's so great to have you.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me, warren, and thank you for having me back. So good to be back. I'm always excited to speak to you.
Speaker 2:So S, just to tell people how they can find you. Uh, you know, for me it's always on x first. I don't know why I just that's where I think you do your best work. But, uh, but, uh, the, the, your, your handle. It's e, macumbo or s, I mean, either way, if you search for s, you're going to find her. Uh, but I'm right, is there any other way that people can get hold of you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I am on Twitter. I'm on Twitter, now X. I'm on Instagram. I'm not so active on Facebook, but I do try and on TikTok, because everyone in this generation loves TikTok, so I am on TikTok as well. I do also do a bi-weekly feature, a weekly feature twice a week every other month on China, africa.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, tiktok, you can see I'm showing my age. I'm never there. So we're talking about quite an emotive topic and it's something close to your heart. And certainly producer Steve is going through the trials and tribulations himself now about trying to find that balance as a parent, with how you spend time on your career. It's important to earn money. You can't feed your kids without being able to buy food. But then how do you balance work, which needs time, it needs effort, it needs commitment, how do you have a life as an adult? And then how do you fulfill the role of a parent? And I guess we're trying to just get an understanding of what that looks like and maybe what are some ideas that people can kind of follow to get a bit of a balance.
Speaker 3:No good question, Warren. So I'm a mother of two I have. My oldest is a boy, he's around 10 and my youngest daughter is around eight. Now, getting the balance right, I'd be lying to say you always get it right. Right, it's a juggling act. You can never get the act right. There are times when you will show up for work and there'll be times when you won't show up for your kids. There'll be time when you show up for your kids and you'll have to miss out on work.
Speaker 3:Being a career woman and trying to juggle, you know, being a mom, having the job that I do and the things that I do, it's always a constant juggling act. And the job that I do and the things that I do, it's always a constant juggling act, and I think it takes a tribe. Warren, I think you tend to realize that it's I can't do everything on my own, so what I do do is planning. So planning becomes very important from a work-life balance perspective. So for the week ahead, I already know what are the things that I'm going to be doing, what are the things that I can show up for my kids and what are some of the things I won't be able to show up for my kids for, so that other people can step in my village that surrounds me, my support system can show up. So, for example, my daughter has got a speech tomorrow. I won't be able to show up, but my partner will be able to show up for that. My friend will be able to do the pickup, the drop off. So it's constantly planning ahead and knowing who can step in when I can't. And you know what it takes a village. There are people around me who support me and who I call on to support me.
Speaker 3:So for the week ahead where I know I won't show up, I call them ahead of time to make plans for them so that my kids don't feel like you know my parents are not showing up. Someone will always show up for them, and it's very important to communicate to them when I can't show up so that they know mommy won't show up, but she will show up in a different way. Mommy would have loved to have shown up, but she can't be there. So someone will be there to support you. What I will do is they'll take videos for me. We'll talk about it. How do you feel about it? How can I support you? So it's always a constant juggling act and I feel you know you never feel great as a parent not to show up for your kids, but you always try and be there most of the time. You won't always be there all of the time, but you'll be there most of the time.
Speaker 2:And I think you're making some powerful points. You know which I want to dive into a little bit. And I think you're making some powerful points. You know which I want to dive into a little bit. And maybe you know, as someone who has no children and employs lots of working moms, I love hiring working moms because I think if you give a working mom a little bit of freedom to kind of go to school, do the school runs every now and then, as an employer, you get a massive reward because you're giving something that will come back to you thousands of times over and you know, for potential employers out there, you know, provide that flexibility and be a little bit understanding and it's amazing how you make everything better. You get better, happier employees and certainly I think you know, think the working moms feel less stressed.
Speaker 2:But just to say I haven't ever come across a working parent, mom or dad who will go through life thinking I've got everything right. I managed to achieve the perfect balance between my career, my family, my own life and I think you hit the first point. It's such an important psychological thing to understand is give yourself a bit of freedom to say it's impossible. You cannot be a full-time parent and work and you cannot be 100% on your game all the time at work. There are times when something has to give and actually that's okay. If you start with that attitude on day one, as S says, it's going to be a situation of a little bit of guilt somewhere. Somewhere you feel like, even if you're not dropping a ball, you're going to feel like it and I think it's important just to know that, just be aware of that in your head. I think it's important just to know that, like, just be aware of that in your head and then go. I mean I think you make a fantastic follow-up point is you can't do this stuff last minute. You can't have children at school and think that you're going to get everything right without planning anything.
Speaker 2:Now, I think the most successful people I've seen in this space and for me, success here is not it's not a financial thing, it's, you know, kind of getting to the end of the week and feeling that maybe you got most things right this week, like that's success. You know, that's, that's, that's. It's not perfection, we're just talking about getting through the week sometimes but it's the people that plan and and reciprocate. You know, I think you can't be someone that always calls on everybody else without willing to kind of be there for other people and their children as well. I think that point around takes. A village is so powerful. It's like you know, understanding that you don't have to be…. Can I explain that one? Yeah, please, please.
Speaker 3:So I actually have a friend. Yeah, please, please. So I actually have a friend. I have a friend where she usually stays closer to where my kids are for school and when I'm at work we arrange during the week, we arrange so she picks up my kids when I can't, when I'm unable to, and then what I do is I pick up her kid who's closer to my workplace, so we interchange. That's also one of the ways we actually show up for each other and it's such a powerful tool that I've found that we've found works for us, because when I'm unable to, she then picks it up for me. So it's very important to have that support structure for you that assists you in your time of need. And it's that little thing of I'll pick up your child, you pick up my kids and I trust her with my kids, because that's also an important factor, right? Whoever that you ask to step in, you need to be able to be comfortable and trust them that they'll be able to step in when you are not able to.
Speaker 2:And I mean I think the point about planning, support and asking for help and being a source of help. Once you get that balance right, I think it makes life better. It makes life easier. I think anyone listening to this is going to realize by the end of the show that this is not easy. We're not saying by the end of this follow these three steps and you've got everything done, and here's the silver bullet. But you can do things to make your life easier and I think it is a little bit about a mindset shift. More so than anything, it's about taking a bit of responsibility.
Speaker 2:I will say I get really irritated listening to the parents talk about schools, because the schools seem to act as if you know parents are on call 24 7 and they can. They can send the parents a whatsapp, uh, you know, at seven o'clock at night and just say look, you know, show up tomorrow at 11 you know some something's happening or pick up your kids we're deciding to close early. And it feels like the schools take no accountability for the fact that parents work. Uh, and, and you know as much as you want to plan as a parent, the schools just don't seem to give a damn. Like you know, they set life around their own schedule and as an employer, I'd love to kind of you know, kind of do that to the school every now and then just go and shake up their lives and see if they realize that what they're doing is they're playing on parents' emotions.
Speaker 2:You know it's easy to make a parent feel guilty. You know a working parent is always going to feel guilty. So you know, if you just suddenly say, well, we've got something tomorrow and you've got to pitch up, and parents will make a plan, rather than, you know, call the school out and say come on, you know, plan ahead. And it can't be difficult to plan ahead. If you're a school, the whole thing is known. Everything you need to do is known as a school, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I also want to just kind of help people with this guilt thing. I think feeling guilty as a parent seems to me bog standard. That's how life is. You're always going to feel guilty that something's not working 100%. And maybe just a reminder you know that you don't compensate for the time that you're with not with your child by buying them stuff. It's quite a thing, you know. When I talk to parents, I'm sure you have the same experiences. When you talk to people around their money and their children. They want to compensate, so they want to give the kids everything they possibly can to make up for whatever it is the parent feels like they're not giving and I think that that's a slippery slope for me. That's not a secret to success.
Speaker 3:You know, you've touched on something there, warren, and in some instances it's what we as parents use to justify the reasons why we don't show up for important things.
Speaker 3:So it makes you feel better to say, ok, you know what, I was not able to show up in this way. But how I can make up for it is by giving them expensive things. I know my kids are at a stage where they like games, so you know you'll see parents giving kids games, buying them expensive shoes, expensive clothes, to try and make up and feel that you know what, if I buy you these things, it will make up for the guilt that I was not able to show up for you. And this is where communication becomes very important, warren. For me and my kids, because if I'm not able to show up, I communicate, I tell them listen, mommy. For me and my kids, because if I'm not able to show up, I communicate, I tell them listen, mommy. For example, tomorrow can't show up for a speech, for your speech that you're having tomorrow, I can't be there to watch you. However, daddy will show up, or auntie Tuli or auntie one of my friends will show up, or grandma will show up to support you. I'm not. It's not because I don't want to be there, it's because I've got this thing that has to happen and what I will do is I'll make it up in such and such a way. So I won't be able to be there, but I'll ask people to record the video for you. I'll make sure I make it up to you in some way or the other, and then ask the child it's very important to speak to your child. So the other. And then ask the child it's very important to speak to your child.
Speaker 3:So I usually speak to my children and say which of these events are important for me to show up, which one for you is very important and non-negotiables for you. So if it's a football game, if it's a cricket game, if it's a speech, then I'll make sure I work my schedule around that. So for those non-negotiables that are important for them, I make sure I show up. I show up, their dad shows up, or one of my people that can support me, my parents show up for them. And then where I can't those are the negotiable bit Then those ones I will miss out.
Speaker 3:But I'll also tell them in advance that I'll miss out, because there's nothing worse for me as a parent, when your child is on stage and you see their face when the recording that they can't see you there.
Speaker 3:They expected you to be there and all of a sudden you're not there, that breaks my heart and it breaks every other parent's heart to realize that your child is looking for you in the crowd and you're not there. You haven't shown up for them in the way that they expected you to be. So I manage expectations, I communicate and I make sure we understand in terms of what are your expectations from me as your parent and how can I show up in another way. It doesn't mean that I'm going to compensate by, you know, buying you expensive things or other things, but I will show up in a different way that is meaningful for you as my child, and you have to tell me and that's where the communication element comes in what's important for you, how can I make it up for you, what does it mean for me to make it up for you, and are you okay if mommy misses this event, for example? So it's very important to communicate.
Speaker 2:Amazing and you're actually teaching them a real important life lesson, which is how to prioritize, how to make trade-off decisions.
Speaker 2:You know, we I mean it is honest money, so we tend to focus on money, but it's one of those things where you know, being able to prioritize is a life skill that would stand in good stead, whether it's with money in work, anything, and making your child part of the process to say, well, we're going to decide what's important together, you're going to give me input, I'm going to commit to that, and then it gives you permission.
Speaker 2:I guess it's a psychological thing as well when you're not pitching up for the thing that's not important, it's discussed and agreed and, yes, you're not going to feel great, but at least it's clear and transparent to everybody in the family and you're not second-guessing yourself. You've taught your child a skill communication, number one, but number two, prioritizing. And I think that you know I mean if we could teach 30-year-olds to prioritize with their money and their time, you know, life would be a lot better. So doing it with eight and 10 year olds is amazing. So I mean we're running close to out of time and I wanted to check with you if there was any other kind of? I mean, you've laid some great insights out for us already, but any other insights that you'd like to share with potential parents in the situation that you're in now?
Speaker 3:So for me it's the. You know, I think we touched on it earlier how do you spend enough time with your kids whilst building your career? And I think I'll speak on it from a woman's perspective. Right, I always say this I got pregnant with my first one when I was 28. And back then it was young. You think it's old enough, but it was young.
Speaker 3:And you know, being a first-time mom, you realize, you know, when you get back from maternity leave, so first of all your bonus and stuff is prorated because you took four months out to be on maternity leave, so you got to take that expense into account Then, when you come back, you're almost lack of sleep. You're suffering from lack of sleep and expected to show up full time at work. And for the first few months I will not lie to you, warren it was a very difficult time for me, trying to adjust. At some point I thought, oh, do I still need to carry on with this career or do I need to be a full time mother? And unfortunately the finances at the time didn't allow me to be that. So then I had to figure out a way to manage that allow me to be that. So then I had to figure out a way to manage that and I remember my mom coming in to step in and that was, you know, that was very much appreciated for me to have the career that I did. My mom stepping in, taking time out of her schedule to step in and be with my child while I adjusted to work-life mom balance, was immeasurable to me. I'm still grateful for it. And if you have that support system, get into it and realizing that you know my second child. I was pregnant. I was doing my master's second year master's at Stellenbosch. So I was pregnant whilst you know, heavily pregnant, traveling to Stellenbosch to complete my master's and writing my thesis whilst doing all of that.
Speaker 3:So it is possible. I'm not saying it's impossible, it definitely is possible but it takes a lot. It takes a lot of you out of your finances, your well-being, having a support system and just planning ahead. If you're going to consider having kids as a woman, do consider all those aspects that kids are expensive, there's tertiary costs, there's childcare. Just be mindful of those and make sure you have a support system where possible so that you, you, you're surrounded by people that will step in, like we mentioned, when you can't, and realizing that it's a juggling act. You won't get it right, so you will feel guilty always. I always, every day. Till now my kids are older, but I still feel guilty when I can. Always, every day. Till now my kids are older, but I still feel guilty when I can't show up for things that matter to them.
Speaker 3:But, as we've discussed, it's about you know, putting those things in place, making sure you communicate and asking them, because kids do talk and kids do have a voice and I always have to.
Speaker 3:You know you might be the adult in the relationship, but they also have feelings. I don't want to get into the, you know, soft parenting and other things, but realizing that this is a human being, you don't want them to be healing from scars when they're older, from things that happened in their childhood. So it's very important for me to check in with them, have check-in session, having dates with them and just because I have two of them, so some of the times the other one gets in the way and taking one aside and going on a date just me and the one child and having a conversation without the other child present, to really get an understanding of what do they like, what can I do to support them? How can we support them as their parents and I cannot mention this that I don't do it alone. I've got a dad who's just as involved in their life, who shows up when I can't, which is very important in this. You know, as you try and parent kids, as you're trying to bring up kids in this world, as a final note.
Speaker 2:I mean I think it's you know I've learned something. I mean I always it's you know I've learned something. I mean I always learn something from you every time we do one of these episodes and I think that you know. Number one the planning ahead. Number two, the communication with your child yes, with your village is important, that you must do, but that's probably easier for adults. And taking the time to kind of just spend the time to talk to your children about what's going on and mentally preparing them. And then three, as the coach in the room, it's okay not to be perfect.
Speaker 2:You need to know that you can't give your child a perfect upbringing. They've got to be prepared for a world that's going to disappoint them. You know it. Just that's how life is. You can't not everything works out every single day and kind of preparing them for that with trade-off decisions, with juggling and with prioritizing and knowing that they're never going to get everything they want every day If they did, they'd be awful humans, right? We need to struggle sometimes to kind of appreciate the good times.
Speaker 2:So give yourself permission as a parent to kind of do this job reasonably well most of the time. If you do that you're probably doing better than most other parents ever will, and the few scars that you give your child emotionally obviously you know those are the things that maybe drive them and give them character. So don't feel too bad that you're not perfect. No one is On that note S I just want to say thank you very much. I love having you on our show. The time always flies and, for those that are interested in personal finance and work-life balance, you can't follow someone better. S great to see you again and I'm sure we'll have you back on the show.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me, warren. Always a pleasure talking to you. I always say this influenced so much of my personal finance journey, so always grateful to talk to you and always enjoy our chats.
Speaker 1:The Stradivarius violin is considered to be the most emotive instrument in the world. That's why you'll often hear it in investment ads, adding drama and the utmost importance to their philosophies, or for the announcement of a fancy new fund manager 10X. Investments don't need dramatic instruments to seem impressive. They let the results sing for themselves. So 10X your future without the drama. 10x is a licensed FSP.